Talk:Christ Module 2 - Nature of the Christ being

Thread from direct communication after question of facebook forum Feb-2022

Some (e.g. the gnostics) believed that Christ had endowed Jesus (Zarathustra) sufficiently that he left him on the cross ("why hast thou forsaken me"). Rudolf Steiner suggests that Christ had to go through the full death experience for the whole hierarchy.

In either case, the question of what happens to the phantom body from Old Saturn remains unanswered - to whom does it belong?

Zarathustra (Master Jesus), Christ, or even Adam Kadmon?

I do not know the answer to this from anthroposophy - perhaps you do? I suspect that it belongs to Zarathustra but is shared with the Christ, just as Christ shared "the body" of an angel from Ascension to the Second Crucifixion in the 19th-20th centuries. In this way, each of us can share our phantom and our other members with the Christ.

Your thoughts?

Thank you for this question, here's my five pence .. I would say:

Why do you want the phantom body to 'belong' to anybody? Its a new group soul.

As in Man, the lower bodies get purified by the threefold soul, the higher triad develops and so if we're talking about life-spirit (or budhi) and spirit-man (or atma), then these two are no longer 'personal' (the way we think about it here on Earth). This is higher spirit world, beyond the separations of time and space, the life-spirit is like a group soul and spirit-man or atma part of the Monad (see also Rawn Clark's experiential descriptions of the 'greater self'). The process of individuation is human beings about becoming independent spirit-man 'droplets' individualized from the monad, see Schema FMC00.568.

The Cleansed phantom of the Individuality of Master Jesus (Zarathustra) was purified by the Christ during the three years. It became the anchor point for all future human spirits, the future group soul, see Second Adam. A 'new center was created' as explained on Christ Module 7 - Cosmic dimension and The Earth as the spiritual center of the cosmos.

The Masters of the White Lodge are part of this group soul of the budhi or Christos principle (Schema FMC00.481), but also beings at other levels of the hierarchies like archangel Michael share this principle .. that forms the core nucleus of a growing collection of cells as more human spirits will join.

For background, taking a step back and just to recap some basics:

• The physical body needed to be purified because it deteriorated due to the luciferic infection and all that followed in the stream of heredity, see Schema FMC00.337 on/and Model for hereditary physical body.

• However, humanity's process of purification goes in three stages. For the majority of mankind on Earth today it's first the astral body (spirit-self or manas), and only later the two other principles. Only advanced initiates succeed in already fully transforming all three lower bodies. And humanity will only live in those higher principles in the next three stages of planetary evolution (Schema FMC00.130), on Earth today we will have pre-runs of those (see Schemas on Earth rounds perspective#Illustrations) but not in the conditions of those planetary stages.

• From the above one sees that the development process works at the various levels of evolution, with iterative passes always deeper, and so this is also the case for the purification of Man's bodily principles. Hence for a planetary stage the 'main agenda' is always what is on Schema FMC00.130. The Michaelic stream however is a bit of an advanced cohort that runs ahead (or develops, or wants to develop) before this curve, see e.g. Schema FMC00.486.

• Because we currently function with the state of waking consciousness (CoC level 4), it is hardly impossible to imagine realities and future evolutionary stages corresponding to CoC levels 5, 6 or 7 (Future Vulcan). This is explained on the topic page An intellectual trap

• PS: regarding "why hast thou forsaken me", see the coverage on topic page Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani - EELS

This is an excellent question. When we follow Christ through our own ascension (this begins about the year 4500 and lasts up till the Second Fall (just before the return of the moon). At this time, we shall be working on Spirit Self (Manas) and a LONG way from Atman. We must take our OWN phantom with us when we ascend for at some time in the far future, this becomes the basis for our work on Atman (Spirit Man).

This question has actually been on my mind, as more and more people seek to access Christ's resurrection body.

Some thoughts I carry, First of all, I don't associate the physical body that died on the cross with Zarathustra/Master Jesus. Remember, the Solomon Jesus died aged 12 and Master Jesus's higher members passed over into the Nathan Jesus, who suddenly was speaking so convincingly in the temple, whereas previously this being had seemed a bit "backward" (but loving!). So my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) is that the physical body which was taken all the way through the crucifixion is the body of the Nathan Jesus, the body prepared in the Nathan line of heredity. The body of a soul which had never before incarnated in a physical body. Thus I also associated this body with the original idea of the human body, the cosmic image of the human body, aka Adam Kadmon. This body was prepared through heredity to be as perfect a physical body for the indwelling of a god as possible in those times.

The Solomon Jesus had a body which was prepared so as to allow the fullest development of the wise Zarathustra soul, to the height of its potential, so that a worthy sacrifice could be made for Christ. The body of the Zarathustra individuality died at age 12. The higher bodies of Zarathustra (at least ego, astral, and also including etheric) could then work through the physical and etheric bodies of the Nathan Jesus to both purify them (in the sense that initiation purifies the impact of earthly incarnation) and refine them with the highest achievements of human development so far.

Now, remain aware that the Nirmanakaya of Buddha was working in the Nathan Jesus as well!

The Zarathustra soul worked in the Nathan embodiment from 13yr-30yr. Thus the period of development and wanderings belong to Master Jesus, to the Zarathustra ego. Master Jesus had full knowledge of the full life of Jesus (both streams) to age 30, and this was shared with the existing sheaths of the Nathan Jesus.

Then, the Ego of Zarathustra offered itself up at the Baptism in the Jordan, forsaking its connection with embodiment. At this time, the Being of Christ could enter into the prepared embodiment and transform human incarnation from inside. This process did involve a penetration through the entire structure of sheaths, and a burning up of the body also. The physical body became fully transformed at the end of the 3 years, just as the Mystery of Golgotha took place. The physical body was transformed down into the very substance (ash) of the bones, etc.

Then, and let us not forget, the descent into hell, into the sheaths of the earth body took place, by Christ. In this descent the very elemental nature of matter was transformed into a transformed elemental quality which is typically called by the term "phantom body" or "resurrection body." This body is not physical in the sense of mineral ash that we are used to on the physical plane, but it is a complete body structure of a transformed substance that provides a kind of supra-mineral skeleton for Spirit Man. Such a body can live and work in various spheres, including spiritual ones.

All bodies are manifestations of consciousness, yet consciousness at different levels can be called, for example, astral, or etheric, or physical... Astral bodies carry structures of consciousness which include various forms created by the soul forces of thinking, feeling, and willing, for example. Etheric bodies carry dynamic flows of form and force, of life, of livingness in time, of development. Physical bodies become individualized and exactly formed in space (within time) as specific bodies at specific locations in specific periods of time. The densification and individualization is deeper.

Christ transformed the dense and individualized physical body of the Nathan Jesus into a new archetype for a densified form of manifestation of consciousness that can be utilized by all of humanity in its process of ascending back into spirit in individualized form (into Spirit Man). This deed includes a transformation of the physical body into a resurrection body. The resurrection body has quite different forces acting within it than the original (descending to incarnation) blueprint of humankind.

A spiritual scientific exploration of the substance and forces of the resurrection body would indeed be a very valuable contribution to spiritual research!

I am tempted to offer a scheme that has become important to me regarding the various sheaths of Christ, particularly now, as multiple beings assist with this. I will seek to refrain. But for me, the question has always been, what to call this transformed Physical Phantom of Christ? I do connect it with the Nathan being, who was held back, and who entered physical incarnation with a sublime innocence and with extraordinarily pure etheric forces. But what to call this physical body? The term "Nathan Soul" is used quite a bit, but this refers to the soul as it was transformed through Christ's incarnation, not to the body per se. "The resurrection body" is probably the most accurate term.

OK I can't help but give my current schema thoughts regarding the sheaths of Christ at this time, as Christ works actively in the etheric world.

    Christ Himself as Universal Ego of Humanity & Spirit of Earth Development.

I of Christ

    Michael as the "countenance" or "personality" of Christ, in conjunction with the imprint of the Zarathustra Ego, in-between the I and Astral Body, helping mediate these, helping mediate the connection of the Christ I to the Spirit Self of earth-sun humanity.

Astral Body of Christ

   Vidar as the carrier/sustainer of the etheric body of the Etheric Christ, and closely bound with Nirmanakaya of Buddha, mediating the connection between Christ's Life Spirit and Spirit Self

Etheric Body of Christ

    Nathan Being (at intersection of physical and etheric), mediating the relationship of the pure etheric forces (Life-Spirit) of Christ with the pure template of the physical body - the resurrection body (Spirit-Man).

Resurrection Body

Well, to explain this properly would take hours or pages, and I realize this not the right place.

However, I would welcome further thoughts on these matters. This is living spiritual research for me, and I do believe that we benefit from sharing with each other our hypotheses and understandings and experiences.

Offered humbly,

Susan O

Thank you Susan for your contribution and question.

It is indeed a rather complex matter, so not easy to write about simply, one needs to have studied it for all the pieces to fit together, as you know.

Before going to the questions ... to your explanation, which is correct, I wondered if you had seen the Schemas on the page The two Jesus children#Illustrations, like Schema FMC00.080A (and Schema FMC00.043), these should provide a synthesis in overview. (PS always right click to open links in new tab)

Then, on the 'resurrection body' and the question you ask: "what to call this transformed physical phantom of Christ?".

First it's true that 'phantom' is a terrible term, we would be so much better off with for example 'spirit-form-body' or anything else, but the term is established in the GA unfortunately, just like the equally unfortunate 'double'. These terms go back to Blavatsky before 1890, and Rudolf Steiner just built on what was available as concepts and terminology in theosophy (and did not come up with alternative names later).

Secondly, imho what matters most is the power of the Christ Impulse as the 'pull' force towards spiritualization, and its vantage point for which we can use the term (by the apostle Paul) Second Adam (see eg Schema FMC00.189). Whereas Adam was the start of divergence physically, the Second Adam is the point of convergence spiritually. We learn this vantage point is really the future group soul for spiritualized humanity (see eg Schema FMC00.594). The site covers this quite extensively on various topic pages, we can go into this if you want.

So that is the key, and this will remain relevant for the remainder of Earth evolution, throughout Future Jupiter, until the midst of the Future Venus planetary stage of evolution (Schema FMC00.022 and variant on that page). That 'new center' of the Christos group soul still has its own spirit-man or atma behind (like connected, part of the monad, higher spirit world - though these two highest principles have there seeds in the two worlds above) but I don't think that should concern or confuse us.

Besides this my guess is there is indeed a spiritual archetype in the lower spirit world that corresponds to what was worked with (Jesus of Nazareth), and this form can project downwards astrally and appear anywhere on Earth in unlimited multiplicity. See after the resurrection in the Gospels, and also Christ in the etheric. But I think there is a danger of thinking in too much of physical terms about all this, just because we live in a physical body in time and space. A second danger is to want to think about things that thought cannot tackle because it is beyond our current level of consciousness (re An intellectual trap, I once called it the 'frontier of sensible scope')

Furthermore, for those who want to read further (and read German), see also the 'Further reading' section below on the page Cleansed phantom. Frank Linde goes into this terminology confusion extensively but doesn't bring any answers. The better book on this imho is by Max Hoffmeister (I paid to have it translated in English, but it hasn't been published yet).

PS: this is a first response as an acknowledgement of your post, I might edit and add to it to improve the answer (will check another source I'm thinking of), and we can refine further below if you want.